You wrote:
"OK. Let me try again on one genetic difference that explains higher crime statistics for Negroes in the United States.
IF we can agree that there are AVERAGE genetic differences in IQ and that IQ is a general indicator of success in education and employment
then, if Negroes have an average IQ of 85 compared to a White 100 then Negroes will be less successful in education and in employment
and will have an excuse and motivation for engaging in crime."
For now, I will accept the established fact that IQ test scores are reliable predictors of an individual's academic achievements. I do not, however, con
ede with your inference that genetic differences are the *sole* determinate factor(s) that affects a person's IQ.
Unfortunately, the evidence that you have provided thus far is not sufficient to sup
port your claims, Whitebear.
Interestingly, in the very article you cited, the
author himself does not corroborate your assertion that genetics are responsible for increased crime rates among Blacks. In"
"The Differences Are Real", Prof. Arthur Jensen reiterates : "I have tried to emphasize the uncertainty of our knowledge of the causes of race differences in mental abilities. I do not claim any direct or definite evidence, in terms of genetic research for the existence of genotypic intelligence differences between races or other human population groups."
Similarly, in a PBS interview titled
"A Conversation
with Charles Murray", Charles Murray remarks: "...just because there is a group difference in intelligence does not mean that it has to be genetic, even though IQ is substantially inheritable
on an individual level. That's just a statement of fact."
Anyway, the interaction of crime and race is a complicated subject. It would be foolish to totally rule out ec
onomic factors. Per capita income does not account for the disparity between rich and poor. The countries with the highest crime rates do tend to be those that have the highest disparities between wealth and poverty. If equally poor people populated a whole area, there would be little reason or opportunity for them to steal from each other.
You seem like an intelligent person, Whitebear, so I do not see how you can justify trying to separate the cultural and economic aspects of race from the genetic ones. We are social beings, and people are shaped by their experiences, many of which are profoundly affected by social
constructions of race. Economic factors shape experience as well.
I cannot buy into the kind of genetic determinism that suggests racial minorities are somehow more inclined toward criminal behavi
or. How would that even work, on a biological level? Crime is a sociological phenomenon. 50,000 years ago, there was no such thing as crime, so I do not see how it makes sense to suggest t
hat there is a crime-committing gene in some races and not others.
Human beings of all types commit crimes, so wherever you go looking for it, you find it. If corporate boardrooms were policed as carefully as many Black-dominated inner cities, the crime rates there would soar. However, we do not go looking for crime in the corporate boardrooms. People are afraid of minorities and so it is not too hard to scare up the money to lock more of them up. At the same time, drug dealing and abuse is rampant in the white suburbs, but there is no political support for locking up more middle-class white kids.
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Myth: Some ethnic groups have genetically inferior IQ's.
Fact: Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.
...
Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) sco
re 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.
In the U.S., both Korean and Japanese students score above average in IQ tests; many scholars agree that, genetically, they are about as close as two ethnic groups can get. But the Korean minority living in Japan scores much lower on IQ tests than the Japanese. Why? The Japanese are extremely racist towards Koreans; they view them as stupid and violent, and employ them only in th
e dirtiest and lowest-paying jobs. Tensions are so great between the two groups that violence often erupts in the form of riots.
In the U.S., Polish J*ws arriving before 1910 were also perceiv
ed as stupid (for no other reason than they were accustomed to a different culture and spoke another language). So many "Pollock" jokes arose that Americans still tell them to this day, even if no one remembers why. The Polish J*ws suffered heavy job discrimination and suspicion of criminality; not surprisingly, their children suffered low grades and IQ test scores. Today, of course
, many Americans hold the opposite prejudice; J*ws are viewed as the most brilliant of ethnic groups.
Russian-born J*ws who became American soldiers in World War I also scored low on IQ tests. So low, in fact, that Carl Brigham, the creator of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, declared that the results "disprove the popular belief that the Jew is highly intelligent."
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To What Degree Does Environment Affect I.Q.?
The assumption is that environment does not affect the impact of gene differences on I.Q. -- that is, that the covariance term in the above equation is zero.
Recent studies have allowed a direct assessment of this assumption. Importantly, it proves to be flat wrong.
In November of 2003, researchers reported an analysis of twin data from a study carried out in the late 1960s. The National Collaborative Prenatal Project, funded by the Nati
onal Institutes of Health, enrolled nearly 50,000 pregnant women, most of them black and quite poor, in several major U.S. cities.
Researchers collected abundant data, and gave the children I.Q. tests seven years later. Although not designed to study twins, this study was so big that many twins were born, 623 births. Seven y
ears later, 320 of these pairs were located and given I.Q. tests. This thus constitutes a huge "twin study," the first ever conducted of I.Q. among the poor.
When the data were analyzed, the results were unlike any ever reported. The heritability of I.Q. was different in different environments! The influence of genes on I.Q. was far less in conditions of poverty, where environmental limitations seem to block the expression of genetic potential.
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Myth: The black/white IQ gap is largely genetically caused.
Fact: Almost
all studies show the black/white IQ gap
is environmental.
Summary
Since the publishing of The Bell Curve, a definitive study has come out of Columbia and Northwestern Universities demolishing the theory that the white/black IQ gap is largely genetically caused. But even at the time The Bell Curve was published, there was no reason to make such a claim. Of the seven major scientific studies on genes, race and IQ, six suggested that genes play no role in the IQ gap between whites and blacks, and only one suggested a genetic cause. Statistical objections can be raised to all seven early studies, but at the very least, The Bell Curve had no grounds whatsoever to imply that the IQ gap is largely genetic.
"Click here to view this article in its entirety..."<
/a>http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-IQgapgenetic.htm
One can't deny that the majority of young men killing each other in gang wars are minorities. But one can deny that the reason they are so violent and immoral is bec
ause of their race. That is false and an insult to the majority of blacks and other minorities who are decent, law-abiding persons. One can't deny that minorities are undereducated as a group and underrepresented in our colleges and universities, and in the professions and skilled trades. But one can deny that the reason minorities are underrepresented is because their race makes them genetically inferior and incapable of competing with "white" America.
<a href='http://skepdic.com/iqrace.html' target='_blank'>"Click here to view this article in its e
ntirety..."
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(reposted by NNN Edit
or from old open message board)
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